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Helping the Breeding Economy

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Alacrity Economy.

This has been a topic for awhile and personally I'm glad to see some attempts to fix it come about. However, I could not help but wish when I saw the two choices for a third one. I have a third proposal, one that could possibly have a greater positive effect on the economy.

What I am proposing is to limit the upgraded accounts breeding. Now I have two upgraded accounts, that means I can breed as many times a month as I want. What I am suggesting it to limit it to a reasonably high number for upgrades. Say 10. That's more than two litters a week, most people do not breed that much, so it's probably fair. And it's still a huge benefit to upgrades.

Now before you don't support this, I ask that you hear out the problems with the other two, and why this one will work better.

There's been voice opposition for #2, the limited litter amount for bitches. There's the fact this would have a hugely negative impact on any custom dog or any dog you give a lifelong locket to. It also means your prized bitch will only be worth x number of litters, and the bitch you have just because she's cute and never plan to breed will have unused litter possibilities because she's low TP or inbred or whatever. Now I am assuming it's limiting to a fairly low number, like 10 per bitch, versus something like 35+ litters. 35 litters is a lot for a non-immortal dog. 10 is not a lot for a dog who will live several months.

The major problem with the alacrity economy, one that affects both suggested fixes, is people who overbreed. There are a few of them on Alacrity currently and personally limiting their breeding will ultimately curb most of the issues. They have 50 or more pups being sold at any given moment and they're selling them dirt cheap because of this fact. This undersells people who breed three or four times a month only and causes the problems we've seen. Even if we limit the breeding number for bitches, if you've got 20+ bitches at any given moment, it's still many, many litters. I'm not saying it isn't their choice to have that many dogs being bred at any one time, but I am pointing out that having unlimited breedings can cause this situation we're in with the economy. If they had a limit of 10 breedings per month, there would be less puppies being sold.

And carrying on to #1 offered by the quiz, if you have 20+ bitches, even if you have to wait 12 months ala time, you can still do a lot of damage to the alacrity economy. I have 34 bitches between my two accounts. Given 12 days between breedings, that means every month I could have 68 breedings. Since I breed large dogs, that could be anywhere from 204 to 272 pups born. I am not doing this. I breed, if I averaged it out, once every week or two. But I'm showing the potential damage of people who can and will do this.

Now even if there is only 5 people doing this essential overbreeding situation on Alacrity, that's about 1000 pups flooded into the market monthly that could have been prevented. 1000 pups that are sold dirt cheap by 5 people. That would be 1000 pups from other breeders that could be bought.

Limiting upgraded accounts breeding to 10 per month would mean any one person could only have tops of 40 puppies a month per account if they bred large dogs and got litters for 4. That's still a lot, but it's much less damage they could do any other way. The majority of breeders out there who are breeding selectively, are not breeding 10 times a month. They're breeding once week. This therefore seems reasonable to me right now.

Doing this will also limit overbreeding situations, or breeding purely as a means to make money. Everyone wants to make some money from their litters. But overbreeding means ways to make a ton of easy cash, even if you just put down half your pups.

So that is my two cents. I'm curious to opinions, especially from upgraded players. Do you feel limiting yourself to 10 breedings a month, for the good of the economy, hurt you? Or would you prefer the other options put out?

Edit: I'm not here to debate the benefits or negatives of low tp and breeding unmaxed dogs. Or that we should cull the lot below x tp. If you'd like to discuss that, perhaps another thread needs to be created. I'm curious as to what people think of my idea, if they're for or against it or if they think other options beyond the two Rob offered and what I offered ought to be put out there.

Edit2: I should clarify, 10 breedings between your bitches a month. Stud out your dogs to your hearts desire.

01-25-2011 at 10:22 PM

I have to agree with a lot of the points that have been made so far. - I think dogs should be trained at LEAST in basic before they can breed. It honestly doesn't take that long, especially if you have a collar (or borrow one from someone). Not an impossible requirement. I believe allowing only maxed dogs to breed would help a lot, and in a perfect world everyone would do it anyway, but it's a bit restrictive I think.
 -I actually agree with the quiz or some sort of introduction to breeding. When I first started, I bred low tp dogs because I didn't really understand. - I understand the value of limiting breedings for upgraded players, however I am not really sure I support it. I agree that some people abuse the unlimited breedings and have huge kennels full of sales dogs, but what about people who breed looking for a specific marking? For example I bred some of my borzoi just for a specific coat, and I retired the dogs that did not have the coat/marking. Without the extra breedings I might have had to restrict my breedings, which I get is the point, but I didn't sell those other dogs anyway. -I am not really fond of the limited litter amounts for bitches, but I do agree that some dogs are way overbred (Many GSDs are so inbred because of certain dogs being bred constantly) but..idk. -I -don't- agree with a vet bill for breeding. If you are taking proper care of your dogs already, there is already a "price" to pay for breeding your dogs. This price includes the bath tubs, vaccinations, and food to get your dogs back up to health after birth/being born. -Unrelated to breeding but still on the topic of economy, I think that the shops should restock less (not including the food shop). If things aren't constantly stocked in the main shops, more people will be driven to use user shops, encouraging more money being exchanged. Just a thought

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2011-01-25 14:28:18 by #5085

2011-01-25 14:25:20 by #5085

01-25-2011 at 12:29 AM

And as for the 10 breedings a month. It's way better than unlimited. Less pups, more carefully bred litters. I can't think of anyone using 10 a months though. Well, still it's better than having 50 dams giving birth to litters.

01-24-2011 at 8:33 AM

I agree with some of the other things previously suggested. It only takes maybe 1-2 people to wreck the breeding economy. Two people (or just one) could go left and right breedings playing the "Oh! I'll breed pretty dogs to make money" game. They can sell them dirt cheap too. All those low TP dogs around are usually directed at newbies since most want a pretty dog. So maybe there should be a minimum TP amount. Say 140 was the min. There would be a lot less dogs since those under 140 TP would be hmm... between retired/put down. Vet bills would be good too, considering some can rather large. It would keep people from breeding and breeding and breeding without a fee. It may also help some realize they need to put more thought into what they were doing.

01-19-2011 at 3:19 AM

@Nitrous: The majority aren't the problem, it's the minority. The people selling 100+ puppies. Doesn't matter if the majority behave, the people who abuse it are the problem and the reason unfortunately that something must be done. All it takes is one person being a puppy mill and they've saturated the market. Seriously, if you had read my entire post, that point would be painfully obvious. All it takes is one or two people overbreeding/puppy milling and the market goes belly upDf0 = Thank you. Most your points I generally agree on. I think vet bills for breeding would be valid, I think roll over could work up to x number of breedings. I think limiting the puppy kennel is very important.

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2011-01-18 19:26:13 by #1511

01-11-2011 at 10:23 PM

To the original point: I'd be fine with it as long as they roll over like basics do. Like Nit said this would only be dealing with some of the problems so some of the other ideas could be added to tie up the rest of the problem. The other points i found in here that i liked: *have to have basic done to breed *a recovery period after breeding *A fine to breed (vet bills) *Limiting the puppy kennal (20?) *A waiting period to breed, say like 3 days of joining The ones i don't like: *A quiz. No way. Just no. Definitely No. It really is useless since people will just put the answers out everywhere like all the other sim's tests. They are jokes =/ *Culling low TP dogs. I am personally not against buying a lot TP dog, training it and then breeding it to get better puppies, low or not. It helps keep some interesting markings around as well as different lines.

01-11-2011 at 6:37 PM

As far as your original idea goes: NO support. "What I am proposing is to limit the upgraded accounts breeding. Now I have two upgraded accounts, that means I can breed as many times a month as I want. What I am suggesting it to limit it to a reasonably high number for upgrades. Say 10. That's more than two litters a week, most people do not breed that much, so it's probably fair. And it's still a huge benefit to upgrades" If "most people don't breed that much", what's the point? O_o There wouldn't be one.

01-11-2011 at 5:27 PM

i agree with Kiraleeka, there should be a Quizz of some sort before breeding. i just looked at a nother members profile, she got GSD's 5 of them are for sale for 1000 ala cash with at tops a wopping 17 TP its dogs like that that are slowing the market down, not the well breed dogs from fully maxed out parents.

01-10-2011 at 9:52 AM

I agree with only allowing maxed dogs to breed. also maybe not allowing someone to breed until they pass a breeding quiz so that they actually have a clue what they are doing. I have had so many players send me breeding requests on their first day on the site! I now feel that it is ridiculous but I also remember my first day on the site and how excited I was to breed my dogs... course I got crappy pups which were promptly purchased and retired by members who had been on longer than me. but back then I didn't understand what the heck I was doing. I think that is what the big problem is with the economy, uneducated noobies who don't have a clue what they are doing. if they had to read a breeding rules guide and pass a test before they could breed that would help. plus if they couldn't breed on their first day then they would have to buy dogs if they wanted them instead of breeding site crashers (low TP pups)! I just kind of feel like unrestricted breeding for brand new people is very bad! and VERY tempting to them. maybe if they had to be on for 15days or so before they could breed and then pass an "exam" sort of thing that would help them see that a dog must be maxed to breed.

01-10-2011 at 9:42 AM

I dunno Crevan, I've seen people with 50+ puppies on their sales accounts. You don't think that doesn't cause a bit of a problem? If they bred less, then there'd be less of a flood of dogs. It's not people who can only breed twice a month entirely causing the problem.

01-10-2011 at 9:36 AM

Upgraded accounts are not causing the problem =/ And, getting an upgraded account doesn't take too much. If you can get it upgraded... you can pretty much KEEP it upgraded. You get a 2 month upgrade for 3 bones... you get two months worth of monthly items that upgraded accounts get - with those, you can easily make three more bones to stay upgraded. Just throwing this out there, since it seems like a lot of people think it's impossible to be upgraded... really, all it takes is a little patience and money saving ;) The two best options I've heard so far are... - Make dogs have to be trained to 100% to breed & - Make there be a fine to breed dogs Those are the only two, so far, I think would help the game and keep players happy.

01-10-2011 at 9:34 AM

I like Calibs idea, that only maxed dogs should breed.

01-10-2011 at 9:28 AM

Sort of a combination. I'm not against a short cool down period, maybe 2 days, that could mean syncing with going into heat again would be easy.

01-10-2011 at 9:27 AM

I agree with this idea completely, however like Keeta said I also think there should be a "cool down" for breedings. Definitely NOT 12 days though, maybe something around 2?

01-10-2011 at 9:23 AM

I think we should limit the number of breedings per upgraded account. BUT, I also like the idea of a waiting period between breedings, it would keep lines from getting too cluttered and help cut down on puppies born. but 12 months (12 RL days!) is a long time to wait

01-10-2011 at 9:19 AM

well I like the idea of not breeding more than 10 times a month I'm not upgraded so I'm only 2 per month anyway.. and I have to say I don't reckon I'll be missing not being able to breed whenever or where ever.. perhaps when I have more dogs.. I also like the idea of maxing the dogs before breeding, sure some will have the benefit of magical waterbowls, but most of us most will not, but at least it gives time to ensure good quality pups and reduce the speed of the lineage at least some.. a combination would be nice..

01-10-2011 at 9:19 AM

01-10-2011 at 7:19 AM

You make a good point, I must admit, it would be very nice to see that implemented. So I will concede the fact that even if it's drastic, it is necessary to completely end the problem. Frankly as long as the puppy milling stops, I'm happy, but to have more being done to improve the quality of breeding would be fantastic as well. One step at a time.

01-10-2011 at 7:11 AM

I know my solution looks "drastic", but unless you cure the root of the problem the problem will keep growing. Actually, I'm not the most dedicated member out there. Still, I play alacrity as it's supposed to be played (as a trial dog sim) and feel that the designers need to keep that in mind and put her foot down or else it won't be a trial dog sim anymore, but a "lets breed pretty dogs in mass to make money" site instead. If I wanted to play Wajas, I'd go back there. Will a few players leave if the designer puts her foot down? Probably. Will the site be better for the wear? YES!!

Creating a userbase that is playing the game you envisioned and loyal to your game because it sticks to the vision and is not like other games is worth more than letting the players morph your game into something it's not.

edit history

2011-01-09 23:13:56 by #5794

01-10-2011 at 6:58 AM

Yeah, I sort of feel like upgraded accounts are getting too much of an advantage, because there are people like me that are in a situation where it's impossible to pay for an upgraded account. (Too young -_-)

Rejoice! I can finally post on forums!

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2011-01-09 22:58:47 by #3649

01-10-2011 at 6:48 AM

You make a very good point Calib. And I myself prefer to breed maxed only, although I did breed an unmaxed litter once for fun and once when I didn't know any better. My solution is less drastic than yours, it will not fix everything but it's a less dramatic fix. I would like to see maxed dogs being bred only and I think that way you wouldn't have to cull the lower TP dogs necessarily as they'd eventually go by default. The puppy kennel thing I can get behind. I see the benefit of the puppy kennel for newbies who necessarily cannot afford slots, but it's been abused extremely. Perhaps a limit of what can be in the puppy kennel would help? 10 puppies or they start running away? A compromise, because as much as the more dedicated members would like to see things like this, generally we're a minority. I'm mostly out to stop overbreeding/puppy milling first as that is the biggest problem we have, versus the low tp thing. But I seriously think you should post about taking advantage of the puppy kennel in a separate thread. I would support limiting it at the very least, if not removing it.

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